Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

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Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Johan Corveleyn-3
Can we try to give 1.10 alpha3 a bit more exposure, in order to gather
more feedback? I'm thinking of:

- A post to users@, explicitly pointing out the TC resolution features
and asking for testing / feedback. This should be short and to the
point, and IMO should contain a short version of the table at [1] (BTW
is the table still accurate? Perhaps it should show which of the
resolution options is the 'm' option?).

- Reaching out to producers of binaries (e.g. TortoiseSVN, Wandisco,
CollabNet) to create a 1.10-alpha3 (client at least), and announce it
on their website / channels, with some info about the TC resolution
features (based on our users@ post?) and asking for feedback (either
to be sent to users@, or via the vendor's own channels / forums ...).

- Announce / ask feedback more prominently on our own website.

- Reach out to software that integrates SVN (e.g. IDE's) to start
working on 1.10 support, with TC resolution functionality. For
instance I can file an issue with IntelliJ IDEA for this.

More ideas ...?

[1] http://subversion.apache.org/docs/release-notes/1.10.html#conflict-resolver

--
Johan
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Re: Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Daniel Shahaf-2
Johan Corveleyn wrote on Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:57 +0200:

> Can we try to give 1.10 alpha3 a bit more exposure, in order to gather
> more feedback? I'm thinking of:
>
> - A post to users@, […]
>
> - Reaching out to producers of binaries to create a 1.10-alpha3 […]
>
> - Announce / ask feedback more prominently on our own website.
>
> - Reach out to software that integrates SVN (e.g. IDE's) to start
> working on 1.10 support, […]

Just one: ideally, by the time we post to users@, alpha3 binaries will already
be available for most libsvn_client consumers.
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Re: Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Nathan Hartman
In reply to this post by Johan Corveleyn-3

> On Aug 15, 2017, at 5:57 AM, Johan Corveleyn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Can we try to give 1.10 alpha3 a bit more exposure, in order to gather
> more feedback? I'm thinking of:
>

I assume alpha status means not for production use.
The question then is how to test effectively, in a manner that
is representative of real use
without excessive risk to data.

It may be helpful to include suggestions in the
aforementioned exposure.

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Re: Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Andreas Stieger
In reply to this post by Johan Corveleyn-3
Hi,


On 08/15/2017 11:57 AM, Johan Corveleyn wrote:
> Can we try to give 1.10 alpha3 a bit more exposure, in order to gather
> more feedback?

The openSUSE project has 1.10 alpha3 binaries ready for all current
openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise distributions.

https://software.opensuse.org//download.html?project=home%3AAndreasStieger%3Abranches%3Adevel%3Atools%3Ascm%3Asvn&package=subversion

Andreas
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Re: Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Johan Corveleyn-3
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Daniel Shahaf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Johan Corveleyn wrote on Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:57 +0200:
>> Can we try to give 1.10 alpha3 a bit more exposure, in order to gather
>> more feedback? I'm thinking of:
>>
>> - A post to users@, […]
>>
>> - Reaching out to producers of binaries to create a 1.10-alpha3 […]
>>
>> - Announce / ask feedback more prominently on our own website.
>>
>> - Reach out to software that integrates SVN (e.g. IDE's) to start
>> working on 1.10 support, […]
>
> Just one: ideally, by the time we post to users@, alpha3 binaries will already
> be available for most libsvn_client consumers.

Hm, yes. I guess that would be best. But maybe the binary packagers
also would like a short write-up to accompany their publishing of the
1.10 alpha3.

So I'm imagining that:

1. We write some short explanation / call for testing, that we can
send to interested binary packagers (a text they can reuse when
publishing for their users / on their website).

2. We contact binary packagers and ask them if they'd like to help out
by publishing 1.10 alpha3 somewhere (clearly marked as "alpha /
unstable / cutting edge"), where they can reuse our text from 1 if
they want. We ask them to confirm it and when they'll do it.

3. We publish details on our own website, linking to the various
binary packagers that have confirmed.

4. We mail users@ with some extended version of text 1., with a link
to our own webpage and links to the various binaries that have become
available.

5. Where possible / known, we contact other software vendors that
integrate SVN (IDE's etc) if they'd like to join the effort, and
prepare their software to handle tree conflicts using the new
functionality.


On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Nathan Hartman
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I assume alpha status means not for production use.
> The question then is how to test effectively, in a manner that
> is representative of real use
> without excessive risk to data.
>
> It may be helpful to include suggestions in the
> aforementioned exposure.

For the tree conflict resolution feature we're mainly interested in
client-side testing. So end-users trying the 1.10 alpha3 on a working
copy, either during their daily work (with all disclaimers about it
being only an alpha) or to try out typical scenario's where they
encounter tree conflicts. They can do a significant part of
experimentation / testing without even committing the result to their
repositories.

I guess you're right: we should write up a couple of suggestions on
how users can test the alpha.


On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Andreas Stieger
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The openSUSE project has 1.10 alpha3 binaries ready for all current
> openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise distributions.
>
> https://software.opensuse.org//download.html?project=home%3AAndreasStieger%3Abranches%3Adevel%3Atools%3Ascm%3Asvn&package=subversion
>
> Andreas

Great, thanks Andreas!

--
Johan
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Re: Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Jacek Materna
I mentioned earlier on past thread, and still stand by the statement
that setting up a collaborative space beyond email is key to
attracting, enabling and growing an active beta testing user base who
is committed to genuinely testing, breaking and improving new
features. Access to code, commenting, tickets to track improvements
with real-time collaboration are super table-stakes. It may be too
late for this alpha3 but something for the future to consider.

I am actively running content marketing to rally excitement behind
current and future release like alpha3 but more across the spectrum
would increase visibility and 'fill the funnel' for new engaged
beta-users wanting to push the alpha's over the line. Super key.

-jacek

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Johan Corveleyn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Daniel Shahaf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Johan Corveleyn wrote on Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:57 +0200:
>>> Can we try to give 1.10 alpha3 a bit more exposure, in order to gather
>>> more feedback? I'm thinking of:
>>>
>>> - A post to users@, […]
>>>
>>> - Reaching out to producers of binaries to create a 1.10-alpha3 […]
>>>
>>> - Announce / ask feedback more prominently on our own website.
>>>
>>> - Reach out to software that integrates SVN (e.g. IDE's) to start
>>> working on 1.10 support, […]
>>
>> Just one: ideally, by the time we post to users@, alpha3 binaries will already
>> be available for most libsvn_client consumers.
>
> Hm, yes. I guess that would be best. But maybe the binary packagers
> also would like a short write-up to accompany their publishing of the
> 1.10 alpha3.
>
> So I'm imagining that:
>
> 1. We write some short explanation / call for testing, that we can
> send to interested binary packagers (a text they can reuse when
> publishing for their users / on their website).
>
> 2. We contact binary packagers and ask them if they'd like to help out
> by publishing 1.10 alpha3 somewhere (clearly marked as "alpha /
> unstable / cutting edge"), where they can reuse our text from 1 if
> they want. We ask them to confirm it and when they'll do it.
>
> 3. We publish details on our own website, linking to the various
> binary packagers that have confirmed.
>
> 4. We mail users@ with some extended version of text 1., with a link
> to our own webpage and links to the various binaries that have become
> available.
>
> 5. Where possible / known, we contact other software vendors that
> integrate SVN (IDE's etc) if they'd like to join the effort, and
> prepare their software to handle tree conflicts using the new
> functionality.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Nathan Hartman
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I assume alpha status means not for production use.
>> The question then is how to test effectively, in a manner that
>> is representative of real use
>> without excessive risk to data.
>>
>> It may be helpful to include suggestions in the
>> aforementioned exposure.
>
> For the tree conflict resolution feature we're mainly interested in
> client-side testing. So end-users trying the 1.10 alpha3 on a working
> copy, either during their daily work (with all disclaimers about it
> being only an alpha) or to try out typical scenario's where they
> encounter tree conflicts. They can do a significant part of
> experimentation / testing without even committing the result to their
> repositories.
>
> I guess you're right: we should write up a couple of suggestions on
> how users can test the alpha.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Andreas Stieger
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The openSUSE project has 1.10 alpha3 binaries ready for all current
>> openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise distributions.
>>
>> https://software.opensuse.org//download.html?project=home%3AAndreasStieger%3Abranches%3Adevel%3Atools%3Ascm%3Asvn&package=subversion
>>
>> Andreas
>
> Great, thanks Andreas!
>
> --
> Johan



--

Jacek Materna
Chief Technology Officer

Assembla
+1 210 410 7661
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Re: Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Johan Corveleyn-3
On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Jacek Materna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I mentioned earlier on past thread, and still stand by the statement
> that setting up a collaborative space beyond email is key to
> attracting, enabling and growing an active beta testing user base who
> is committed to genuinely testing, breaking and improving new
> features. Access to code, commenting, tickets to track improvements
> with real-time collaboration are super table-stakes. It may be too
> late for this alpha3 but something for the future to consider.
>
> I am actively running content marketing to rally excitement behind
> current and future release like alpha3 but more across the spectrum
> would increase visibility and 'fill the funnel' for new engaged
> beta-users wanting to push the alpha's over the line. Super key.
>
> -jacek

Hi Jacek,

Thanks for bringing this up again.

First, a note, after some IRC-discussion: we'll probably bring out
another 1.10 alpha or beta soon. The main reason is that 1.10-alpha3
is still vulnerable to CVE-2017-9800 (which was fixed in 1.8.19 and
1.9.7, but not yet in the 1.10 stream). A couple of other fixes might
be included. We're considering naming it "beta" now.

I agree a more integrated collaboration environment would a big plus.
But ... how do we get there? Without losing our independence as an ASF
project ...

Can we get there with ASF infrastructure? I doubt it. I've been
looking around a bit. We have:
- JIRA
- ViewVC
- Website (with FAQ)
- MoinMoin wiki (pretty old-school layout)
- Mailinglists (and archives)
- Some projects use Nabble for a forum fronting their mailinglists
(but they are sometimes plagued with spam)
- Some projects use ReviewBoard: https://reviews.apache.org/r/
- IRC (some projects also have channels on HipChat I think)

It'll be hard to use these tools and give an integrated, 21st century
experience.

More integrated environments would be GitHub, or the hosting of
Assembla and perhaps others, ... But those wouldn't be as
vendor-independent obviously. And we'd have to make some clear choice
as a project so we can point people that way, and so we have enough
presence of committers (i.e. we'd have to bless it as "the preferred /
official place" for our community). I'm not sure whether that's even a
possibility for our ASF-based community ...

Thoughts? Maybe some other devs can chime in?

--
Johan
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Re: Giving 1.10 alpha more exposure to gather feedback

Nathan Hartman
On Aug 18, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Johan Corveleyn <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree a more integrated collaboration environment would a big plus.
But ... how do we get there? Without losing our independence as an ASF
project ...

Can we get there with ASF infrastructure? I doubt it. I've been
looking around a bit. We have:
- JIRA
- ViewVC
- Website (with FAQ)
- MoinMoin wiki (pretty old-school layout)
- Mailinglists (and archives)
- Some projects use Nabble for a forum fronting their mailinglists
(but they are sometimes plagued with spam)
- Some projects use ReviewBoard: https://reviews.apache.org/r/
- IRC (some projects also have channels on HipChat I think)

Is Redmine (redmine.org) a possibility? I've never used it but it looks interesting. I plan  to investigate it further for my own use. It has svn integration, though I know very little if anything about it at this time. Their own site probably looks like the stock install, though this page:


lists projects that use Redmine. My favorite is this one, it's beautiful:


I am not affiliated with any of the above. Just thought it's worth mentioning.